然而，一旦进入这个话题，他越能够直接关注其内在指涉物及感受意义，他的不舒服和焦虑会越少。
However, once into the topic, the more directly he attends to the direct referent, the felt meaning, the less his discomfort and anxiety.
伯恩·斯坦伯：对你来说，这首诗的困难不在我们谈论的审美和形式上，而可能在它本土(美国)的文化指涉上。
CB: the difficulty of this poem for you is probably more related to its local (American) cultural references than to the kind of aesthetic and formal issues we have been talking about.
说谎者会试图将自我指涉减到最低。
Someone who's lying will try to keep the self-references to a bare minimum.
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