Ma, to be sure, has become as publicly associated with his company as Steve Jobs or Bill Gates have with theirs.

毫无疑问，在公众眼中，马云已经像史蒂夫·乔布斯或比尔·盖茨一样，与自己的公司血肉相连。

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Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak got their start hacking ma bell, amid their experimentation in phone phreaking Wozniak discovered his technical chops and Jobs learned he could sell and that led rise to one of the greatest technology businesses of our time.

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