Yet Jeff Gordon, a verified Turtle, disagreed with Moss, saying that the Turtles were only those who traded Dennis's money.

然而一个确切的海龟杰夫·戈登却不同意莫斯的说法，他说只有交易丹尼斯的钱的人才叫海龟。

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"The people who built the Mars rovers are hackers, " says Jeff Moss, also known as "Dark Tangent, " the hacker who has organized DefCon for the last 15 years.

FORBES: Magazine Article

"There's a lot of gray area, " said Jeff Moss, who founded the Black Hat security conference, a prominent event for security researchers, and now helps advise the Department of Homeland Security.

WSJ: Computer Experts Face Backlash