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If the soul is immaterial, doesn't it follow automatically, trivially, that the soul can't be destroyed by a material process?
如果灵魂是无形的,是否可以顺理成章地得出,灵魂无法被实体过程所摧毁呢
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And the way to tell it doesn't have parts is because it's invisible, because invisible things can't have parts.
辨别它是否有部分的方法,是因为它是无形的，因为无形的东西没有部分。
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This is how this logic goes -- we are all familiar with this: our body remains to molder in the earth or welter in the ocean , but our incorporeal spirit rises to heaven where it can enjoy an ethereal, a bodiless, world of eternity.
就是这种逻辑--我们都熟悉这个：,我们的肉体在地下或是海底归于腐朽,但灵魂却会升入天堂,在那里享受无形的永生。
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Is there a glass ceiling-- the zero?
有无形的障碍，零点吗？
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All that Simmias needs to cause problems for Socrates' argument is the claim that harmony is invisible and harmony can be destroyed.
西米亚斯为苏格拉底的论证,带来问题的只需要是,和声是无形的,但是可以毁灭。
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Harmony is indeed invisible in sense Number 1, you cannot see it with your eyes, but for all that, it can be destroyed.
和声用无形的第一种解读方式理解，确实是无形的，你看不见它，但是它可以毁灭。
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So Plato could still insist things that are invisible in the sense of undetectable can't be destroyed.
所以柏拉图仍旧可以坚持说无形的东西,无形这里指不能检测到,是不能毁灭的。
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Let's call someting invisible not only it can't be seen, not only it can't be observed, but it can't be detected at all.
让我们把一些不仅是看不见的,不仅是观察不到的，而且是完全检测不到的，东西称为无形的。
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As long as that is true, we can't continue to believe that invisible things can't be destroyed.
只要这是正确的,就不能相信无形的东西不能毁灭。
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So there's not a counterexample, now that we interpret the relevant notion of invisibility as undetectibility.
所以就没有了反例，因为我们给出的无形这个词的解释,是无法检测。
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When he talks about the soul being invisible, and invisible things being indestructible, maybe he means things that can't be observed through any of your five senses.
他谈到灵魂是无形的,无形的东西不会毁灭，也许他指的无形是通过五官,都无法觉察到的东西。
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Because even if the soul is invisible, 5 if, nonetheless, contrary to what Socrates was claiming, invisible things can be destroyed, then maybe the invisible soul can be destroyed as well.
因为即使灵魂是无形的5,像第五点所说的那样,但是和苏格拉底的观点相反的是，无形的东西可以毁灭，那无形的灵魂,也许同样可以毁灭。
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Simmias doesn't merely assert boldly invisible things can be desytroyed.
西米亚斯并非冒失地提出,无形的东西可以毁灭。
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Is it true that the invisible things can't be destroyed.
无形的东西不能毁灭,这个说法是不是正确的。
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So even if we grant that what Socrates meant by invisible was can not be observed, we still have to say with Simmias , you know, fourth is just not true.
所以即使我们认同苏格拉底,指的无形是不能被感知，我们仍旧站在西米亚斯这边，第四点是不正确的。
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So the mere fact that we decide, if we do ultimately decide that there is a soul, something nonphysical, separate and distinct from the body, doesn't guarantee that we survive our physical death.
根据我们仅有的事实去判断,如果我们最终判定灵魂是存在的,它是一种无形的,独立的,与肉体截然不同的东西,但仍不能保证我们会在肉体死亡后活下来
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it's not really invisible in the relevant sense.
根据相关定义它就不是完全无形的。
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Am I a body end in immaterial soul?
肉体死后会不会有无形的灵魂？
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Now the answer seems to me, the only answer I can imagine Socrates and Plato are giving at this point is to say, look, I need a different 3 definition of invisible, not 2 but 3.
我认为答案是，我所能想到的唯一答案是,在这点上苏格拉底和柏拉图,给出的答案是，我需要一个,无形的不同定义，不是2而是。
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Simmias says invisible things can be destroyed.
他认为无形的东西可以毁灭。
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You don't see harmony. Harmony is invisible.
你看不见和声，它是无形的。
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So it must be something nonphysical.
那么它一定是某种无形的东西
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But 5 The soul is invisble.
但是5说灵魂是无形的。
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Invisible things can't be destroyed.
无形的东西不能毁灭。
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invisible things can't be destroyed.
无形的东西不能毁灭。
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Says pretty obviously it's invisible.
很明显是无形的。
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Invisible things don't change.
无形的东西不会改变。
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Is the soul invisible?
灵魂是无形的吗？
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It seems to me that some things are invisible in the relevant sense, radio waves being an example of that, can be destroyed, so even though the soul is also invisible in the relevant sense, maybe it can be destroyed as well.
我认为一些东西是无形的,在相关的意义上讲，这些无形的东西可以毁灭，无线电波就是个例子，所以即使灵魂同样是无形的,根据相关的定义，但可能它也可以毁灭。
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If harmony really is invisible, and harmony really can be destroyed, that invisible things can be destroyed, even the soul is nothing like you know, that's not a good analogy for thinking of the physicalist position, have you? So what?
如果和声真的无形，而和声真的可以毁灭，那么无形的东西可以毁灭，即使灵魂不同于和声,如果从物理学家的观点来看,这不是个好的类比，那又如何？
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