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Let's flip back a step beyond that to Mycenaean civilization for the purpose of noting the great contrast, the great change.
让我们跳回到迈锡尼时代,比较看看两者间巨大的差异,也就可以明白希腊的巨大进步了
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Everybody in the Mediterranean wanted it for the same reasons, and obviously these Mycenaean sites had access to what they needed.
地中海地区的人们都需要它,很显然这些迈锡尼部落能满足他们的需求
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So, that's what is meant by the term, Dark Ages, and that's what does follow the fall of the Mycenaean world.
那么,这就是这个术语的含义,黑暗时代,它紧随着,迈锡尼文明的陨落到来
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There's just no way to explain that except to say that catalog of ships goes back to the Mycenaean Period.
除非《船舶名录》来源于迈锡尼文明时期,否则这点就无法解释了
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You find Mycenaean elements, tools, other things, pottery particularly of a certain kind, all over the Mediterranean Sea.
你可以在一些发掘的工具及其他物品,特别是某种陶器上,发现迈锡尼文明的影子遍布地中海区域
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So, the citadel and the farmland surrounding it, make up fundamentally the unit which is the Mycenaean kingdom.
因此,以城堡和周围的农田为根基,组成了称为迈锡尼帝国的文明
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And then, of course, there's lots of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the Mycenaean period.
因此也有很多东西,和迈锡尼文明时期无关
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In the years of the Mycenaean period, roughly from 1600 to 1100 or so B.C., you are dealing with a largely unified culture.
在大约公元前一千六百年,至公元前一千一百年,迈锡尼文明时期,你将看到一个高度统一的文化
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Then we see that when this culture comes to an end, it is accompanied by people fleeing, getting away from the Mycenaean world.
随后我们看到当这个文明走到了尽头,随之而来的是民众的背离,人们从迈锡尼逃离
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What you see is a kind of cultural unity, first of all, within the Mycenaean world itself.
你看到的是一种文化的统一体,首先,在迈锡尼文明内部文化就是统一的
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Something less easy to say confidently, but probably clear, I think, is the whole legacy of Mycenaean culture is really lost, not fully though.
有些事想确切地说出来不容易,但可能已经比较明白了,我想,就是整个迈锡尼文明留下的遗产,确实遗失了,虽然并不是一点都没留下
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And of course, there are more theories about the fall of the Roman Empire than there are about the fall of the Mycenaean world.
当然,罗马帝国衰落的理论比,迈锡尼衰落的理论更多
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So, the fact that this was a Greek script that was available in the Mycenaean Period tells us very confidently that the Mycenaeans were Greeks.
所以,这个在迈锡尼时期出现的,希腊语书写方法,让我们有足够理由说,迈锡尼人就是希腊人
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Whoever was writing the poems of Homer, whichever poets were contributing to that over the ages after the Mycenaean Period, they hadn't seen those Mycenaean sites.
不管是谁写的《荷马史诗》,无论那些诗人在迈锡尼文明之后,为该作品作出了多大贡献,他们都没见过迈锡尼文明遗址
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An omnipresent bureaucracy with its detailed and all encompassing records gives the clearest picture of the power exercised by the centralized monarchs of the Mycenaean Age."
一个无处不在的官僚体制,所留下详尽细致,无所不包的记录,清晰地描绘了,迈锡尼时期中央集权统治的实行"
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He's taken to the beautiful city on the island of Scheria, Phaiacia, and is treated with great respect as you're supposed to in the Mycenaean world.
他被带到斯刻里亚岛上的一个美丽城市,腓埃基亚,他受到众人的礼遇,就好像在迈锡尼王国一样
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It is evident that these different Mycenaean towns, all throughout the Greek world, on both sides of the Aegean Sea, were in touch with each other.
很明显,这些位于爱琴海两岸的,希腊世界里的不同迈锡尼城市,都是互相联系的
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Now, that's not what queens do. I'm sure the Mycenaean queens didn't do that, but it's very, very interesting that that is what the Homeric queens do.
但王后不做这个 我肯定迈锡尼王后,不织布,但非常有趣的是,荷马史诗中的王后却在织布
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I think it's very important to notice that some of these places that were big in the Mycenaean world were entirely abandoned and not settled again by the Greeks.
我认为值得注意的是,这些地方中有些是,在迈锡尼文明中占据重要地位的城邦,就这样被彻底遗弃了,而且并没有被希腊人重建
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There are also differences, sometimes, in the shape of weapons that we find in the Greek World after the Mycenaean Period compared to what are described in Homer's poems.
在武器的设计上有时也有差异,处于后迈锡尼文明的希腊所发现的,武器和《荷马史诗》的描述是不同的
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You have the destruction completely of the Mycenaean Bronze Age culture.
青铜时期的迈锡尼文化被完全摧毁
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Some of them only go so far as Athens, which had the good fortune somehow of not being destroyed, one of the few important Mycenaean places that is not destroyed.
有些人逃到了雅典,很幸运的是雅典并没有遭到破坏,它是极少数逃过一劫的迈锡尼重要城邦之一
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Was it the world of the Mycenaean Bronze Age?
是迈锡尼的青铜时代吗
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And that, I think, we have to understand as being because of his function in the situation, namely there is a multi-city invasion of Troy being carried on by these Mycenaean Greeks.
基于这个问题,我们先要明白,他的地位以及所起的作用,许多迈锡尼的希腊城邦联合起来,对特洛伊发起进攻的时候
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And if you look at the whole story that he tells, that really means quite soon after the fall of the Mycenaean world, probably maybe a century earlier than what Finley suggests.
如果你关注一下他所描述的内容,就会发现那是在迈锡尼世界瓦解之后,可能要比芬利的观点还要早一个世纪
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Now, not all Mycenaean sites are so far from the sea; some of them are closer, but what it's important to say is that none of them are right on the sea.
不是所有迈锡尼文明遗址都离海这样远,有些距海近些,但重点是,它们没有一个在海边
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There's nothing like that in the Mycenaean world.
在迈锡尼社会就没有这样的情况
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There's one very abstruse clue where somebody seems to know something about it, but fundamentally it's an illiterate society and that is a major difference between the world of Homer and the Mycenaean world.
只有一段很艰涩的文字大约表明有人,了解这一点,但基本上,荷马所描绘的世界,是一个文盲社会,这也是《荷马史诗》和真实的迈锡尼世界,之间的主要差异
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I think we must remember that there were people creating and repeating, and working out, and changing a poetic tradition that started in the Mycenaean world and lasted for the rest of Greek history.
我想我们必须记住,这些进行创造和传承的人民,他们仔细刻画,发展成了诗歌的传统,从迈锡尼社会开始,一直延续到希腊历史的剩余部分
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The notion that this is about the Mycenaean world is an outlier, and then I would say the largest consensus is something like Finley's consensus, but people verging in both directions from that.
那些认为这是关于,迈锡尼时期的观点的人也是无知的,我想芬利的观点大概是最主流的,但是人们似乎理解地有些极端
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