But the first person who had a real discussion had a real meeting with the president in our construct, was the Chief of Staff.

但第一个,和他有真正谈话,和总统真正开会的,在我们的习惯里，是办公室主任。

普林斯顿公开课 - 国际座谈会课程节选

The moral of the story... and by the way, they bring him out during meetings of the board at University College London and the minutes record him as present but not voting.

其寓意在于。。。，顺便说一句，伦敦大学学院理事会在开会时,都会把他推出来,会议记录上写着，他到场但未参与表决。

耶鲁公开课 - 公正课程节选