What does Plato say to us today?

柏拉图会对今日的我们说些什么？

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As a teacher of mine used to say "You read Plato your way " I'll read him his way."

如同我一位老师常说的,“你们以你们的方式阅读柏拉图,我会以他的方式来阅读他“

耶鲁公开课 - 政治哲学导论课程节选

Now, let's say, I'm not really much concerned with whether this was an argument that Plato thought worked or not.

我其实并不太关心,柏拉图本人认为,这个论证是否说得通

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It is in fact, Richards goes so far as to say, following Plato, lying.

实际上，Richards赞同Plato的观点，认为诗歌是在撒谎。

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The idea of having the liberty to say whatever comes to our lips sounds to Plato like a kind of blasphemy.

拥有随意脱口而出,自由的概念,听在柏拉图耳中却像是一种亵渎。

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We can say today that this university is a direct ancestor of the platonic republic of Plato's Academy.

我们可以说现今这间大学的直系原型,即是，“柏拉图学院“的,柏拉图式理想国。

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My point here is not to say, oh, you idiot, Plato, why didn't you think of radio waves?

我这里不是想说，柏拉图，你真傻，你为什么没想到无线电波呢？

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Maybe you might even say following Spinoza, that this is the core of Plato's theological political treatise here.

你也可能会学斯宾诺沙说，那是柏拉图的,核心神学政治论述。

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I'll say, "Plato holds" Or "Socrates argues," because for our purposes it's all the same.

我会说,"柏拉图认为"或者"苏格拉底认为",因为就这门课的目的而言两种说法是等效的

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We've been looking at Plato's arguments for the immortality of the soul, and so far, I have to say I haven't found them very compelling arguments.

我们研究了柏拉图关于,灵魂不朽的论证，到目前为止，我要说的是,我发现这些论证并不是很有说服力。

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And, in a sense, one could say maybe this is not Plato's last word, I mean why does Socrates choose to stay and drink the hemlock?

或者也可以说，这并非柏拉图的结论，我是说为何苏格拉底,选择停留并服下毒参？

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And as I say, Plato gives us a word, "Ideas."

我说过,柏拉图给出了一个词,理念

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as Plato and Socrates clearly understand, a very real tendency within democracy to identify the good human being, you might say, the good sport, the regular guy, the cooperative fellow, you know, someone who goes along and gets along with others.

柏拉图和苏格拉底清楚地明白，那存在着一种很真实的倾向,在民主之中辨识出好的人性，你也许会说喜爱运动的人，好人，乐于合作的人，即可以轻易和众人,打成一片的人。

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As I say though, Plato may well recognize the inadequacy of that argument, because after all Socrates goes on to offer a series of other arguments.

柏拉图本身,可能已经认识到这个观点站不住脚,因为苏格拉底,还提供了一系列其他的观点

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Now, I'll come back to that sort of argument in just a minute, but let me bracket that for a moment and say something about Plato.

我们待会儿再回到这个论题上,现在我们暂且先把它放在一边,开始学习柏拉图

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We could do the history of ideas and say, "Here's Plato's views.

我们可以做思想史研究,然后阐述说,这是柏拉图的观点

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Now, as I say, many times when you read the dialogue, this or other dialogues by Plato, it seems as though he's fully cognizant of the objections that at least an attentive reader will raise about earlier stages of the argument.

很多时候当你阅读柏拉图的对话录,不管是这篇还是其他篇,柏拉图似乎很清楚至少有一个留心的读者,会对早期的一些观点,提出反驳意见

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I should say, to my knowledge, we know nothing more about Glaucon and Adeimantus from history, but Plato put them into his dialogue.

我必需说的是，就我所知Glaucon，和，Adeimantus，两人,仅是历史中的两个角色，但柏拉图将他们放入他的对话录。

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I think maybe Plato could say that.

我认为柏拉图也许会这么说。

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But I want to say, on Plato's behalf, no, it's not, on behalf of the argument, Socrates should never have concluded the argument with this odd qualifying phrase that the soul is indestructible or nearly so.

但是我想代表柏拉图说，不，是代表这个论证，苏格拉底绝不该,在这个结论里,加上这个奇怪的量的修饰词,灵魂几乎是不可摧毁的。

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Now the answer seems to me, the only answer I can imagine Socrates and Plato are giving at this point is to say, look, I need a different 3 definition of invisible, not 2 but 3.

我认为答案是，我所能想到的唯一答案是,在这点上苏格拉底和柏拉图,给出的答案是，我需要一个,无形的不同定义，不是2而是。

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