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And his proposals for the reform of poetry, especially Homeric poetry, represent clearlya radical departure from Greek educational practices and beliefs.
而他建议改革诗学，尤其是荷马诗学，清楚地代表着彻底地背离,希腊教育实作与信念。
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They had even obtained, with the help of the attendant spirit, Haemony the magical herb Haemony with all of its Homeric associations, but this, too, seemed inadequate to the task of rescuing their sister.
他们甚至在随从的帮助下拿到了，有所有荷马史诗联系的神奇的草药，但是看来这些对于解救妹妹的任务来说都是不够充足的。
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Plato's critique of Homeric poetry in the Republic is two-fold; it is both theological and political.
柏拉图在《理想国》中,批评荷马诗学有两层含意;,同时是有关神学与政治学。
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That's the idea of the game, and then Parry demonstrated by careful scholarship of the Homeric poems, that that is the way the Homeric poems were.
他们从游历中获取灵感,之后帕里通过严谨的学术论证证明了,这就是《荷马史诗》的创作方式
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The Homeric heroes are ignorant and passionate men full of blind anger and desire for retribution.
荷马英雄,尽是无知且激情的男性,满腔的盲目、忿怒与渴望报仇。
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The new Socratic citizen let's call him that for a moment the new Socratic citizen may have some features in common with the older Homeric warrior.
新型的苏格拉底式公民,姑且这么称呼,这种新型的苏格拉底式公民,可能有些特征还是和旧时的荷马战士很像。
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Now, that's not what queens do. I'm sure the Mycenaean queens didn't do that, but it's very, very interesting that that is what the Homeric queens do.
但王后不做这个 我肯定迈锡尼王后,不织布,但非常有趣的是,荷马史诗中的王后却在织布
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It's inevitable that people should, and part of the answer is very Homeric.
这是必然的,并且其中一些答案是很荷马式的
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His view is much, if not most, of what we are told about the Homeric world comes, as he says, in the tenth and in the ninth centuries.
他关于《荷马史诗》中世界的观点,正如他说的,即使不是大部分,也有许多,是得自于第九和第十世纪的某些观点
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Well, one of the things that they do when the Homeric heroes refer to their wives-- there are really only two places that they seem to be associated with.
其中一件荷马史诗的英雄提到的,他们的妻子所做的事--,似乎她们只过着两点一线的生活
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But we said the same thing about the Homeric heroes,didn't we?
荷马史诗中的英雄也是这样吗
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Well, what do the Homeric heroes do with their chariots?
那荷马史诗的主角们是怎么用战车的呢
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I don't know that I have an answer to this, but perhaps the Republic as a whole is itself a piece of this Socratic poetry that will substitute for the Homeric kind.
我不确定我对这有预备答案，但也许整部《理想国》,就是一部苏老式的诗学,用以取代荷马史诗。
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It's been drawn out and spatialized. It's as if it's been spatialized into a scene of a beautiful summer's day, and we're left contemplating not the punishment of evil but - I don't know, one of the things we're left contemplating is the sheer beauty of Homeric poetry.
这被描绘出并且空间化了，成为一个,美丽夏日的景象，我们被留予思考的,不是对邪恶的惩罚而是,-我不知道，我们被留予思考的,是荷马风格史诗的十足美好。
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Now, the legacy from the Mycenaeans to Greek civilization later is very limited. But what there is, is very important and no part of it is more important than the Homeric poems themselves.
现在看来,从迈锡尼文明,继承的希腊文明遗产,十分有限,这些有限的部分都很重要,但没有任何一部分比荷马式的史诗本身更重要
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So, you have this tremendous continuity between the sort of the honor code that was so dominant in the Homeric world, which has now been shifted to the larger unit, which is the polis.
现在你对荣耀法则的变迁应当有所了解了,荷马时期的主流是个人英雄主义,逐渐演变成现在对更广泛的集体,也就是对城邦的担当
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And so you will hear Homeric characters referred to by epithets, Homer, part of the technique of passing on oral poetry is by having epithets attached to the rulers to help with the meter.
你会发现有一些别称用来称呼荷马时代的人,荷马时代,口口传诵诗歌的技巧之一,就是在统治者名字后面加上别称,使之更押韵
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this is the period in which the Homeric epics are finally written down now that there is writing and that gives them,I think, even greater impact on the Greek world in the future.
这个时期是就是荷马史诗最终写就的时期,所以那时有了文字,而这对他们,对希腊世界的未来,我认为产生了更大的影响
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In the Odyssey,you remember Odysseus finds himself on the island of the Cyclops, those one-eyed monsters, and what is it about them that make them so monstrous, so inhuman from the perspective of the Homeric heroes?
还记得《奥德赛》中的奥德修斯,在独眼怪居住的岛上遇到的那些怪物,为什么这些独眼怪在荷马式英雄的眼中,是那么丑陋,那么残忍
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More importantly, the Homeric heroes are said to be bad role models for those who follow them, they are shown to be intemperate in sex, into these vices Socrates adds cruelty and disregard for the dead bodies of one's opponents.
最重要的是，荷马英雄们被说成是坏榜样,对他们的追随者而言，他们都太过纵欲、,还有被苏格拉底冠以残忍,与漠视对手尸体的恶行。
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in fact I want to use the word stitched together, because in the Ancient Greek world the people who sang, recited, created the poems of the Homeric epics were called rhapsodes, and that means stitchers of songs.
事实上,我想使用"串联"这个词,因为在古希腊,那些歌唱,朗诵,和创作《荷马史诗》的人,被称为吟诵者,就是说把诗歌串联在一起传唱
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And then A.M. Snodgrass says, "I offer this as a further argument against the existence of a historical, Homeric society."
·M ·斯诺德格拉斯又说道,"我质疑荷马社会,在史实上存在的真实性"
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We know that the Mycenaeans, or at least some small number of them could write, because we have the Linear B script, which we can read. There is no clue that there is such a thing as writing in the Homeric poems.
我们知道迈锡尼人中,至少小部分,是会写作的,因为我们找到了B类线形文字的遗稿,我们能够解读,但在荷马史诗中,却并没有任何线索表明写作这一点
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