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We can certainly think about the forms, but if they're non-physical they can't be grasped by something physical like the body.
我们当然能想象型相,但假如他们是非现实的,他们将不能被现实的事物,比如肉体,所认知
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But it was still interesting to watch and to see unfold So, now I had this picture of real-live data of a real-life city operating in front of me.
但是看着这些事物一点点展开非常有趣,现在我得到了现实的城市里,现实生活的数据就在我面前运转。
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We have the thought that these things are eternal, and indeed, beyond change, in contrast to the empirical world.
我们认为这些事物是永恒的,而且,与现实的世界相比,它超越了变化
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But even if you do survive-- let's the ground floor-- even if you do survive, you would lead a life of constant frustration-- refusing to accept something that is there whether you like it or not.
即使你幸存下来-,比如你在一楼-,就算你真得幸存下来，你的生活将是处处受挫-,拒绝接受现实事物,不论你喜欢与否。
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So there are two components integral and inseparable in the concept of holiness: initial assignment of holy status by God and establishment of rules to preserve that holy status, and secondly, actualization of that holiness by humans through the observance of the commandments and rules that mark that thing off as holy.
因此在神圣这一概念中，有两个组成部分,一个是上帝最初形成的神圣状态,和为了保持这个神圣状态而建立的规则制度，第二个是，人们通过遵守戒律,而将神圣现实化到生活中,将神圣的事物标记出来。
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The sort of thing that perhaps we might call or think of as abstract objects or abstract properties.
这类事物,我们可能需要称作或认为是抽象的现实,或抽象的性质
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Since that which grasps the ideas or forms must be eternal or non-physical-- it's eternal, it's immortal.
同时能认知理念,或者型相的事物必须是永恒的或非现实的,所以灵魂是永恒的,不朽的
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Two-- that which is eternal or non-physical can only be grasped by the eternal and the non-physical.
前提二,永恒和非现实的事物只能被,永恒和非现实的事物所认知
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So that we can talk about things being beautiful to varying degrees, but we never come across beauty itself in the actual empirical world.
我们可以探讨,事物的不同程度的美丽,但是我们从不在现实世界中,直接碰到"美丽"这个东西
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Is it or isn't it true that those things which are eternal or non-physical can only be grasped by something that is itself eternal and non-physical?
我们是否可以说,那些永恒,或非现实的事物只能被,本身是永恒和非现实的其他事物认知呢
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They've got to be grasped by something non-physical--namely, the soul.
他们只能被,非现实的事物认知,比如灵魂
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If that which grasps the ideas or the forms must be eternal/non-physical, well one thing we're going to get is, since that which grasps the forms must be non-physical, the soul is not the body.
假如能认知,理念或者型相的事物必须是永恒,非现实的,那么我们能得到的结论是,既然能认知型相的事物必须是非现实的,而且灵魂并不是肉体
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Yet, various things that we do find in this world get us thinking about those things.
然而现实世界中的一些事物,能让我们想到那些东西
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It would seem to give us three, the conclusion we want-- that which grasps the ideas or the forms must be eternal or non-physical.
我们似乎就得到了第三条,也就是我们要的结论,能认知理念,或者型相的事物必须是永恒或非现实的
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So Socrates has what he wants, once we give him premise number two, that the eternal, non-physical can only be grasped by the eternal, non-physical.
所以如果我们同意他的前提二,苏格拉底就得到了他想要的,前提二说永恒,非现实的事物,只能被永恒,非现实的事物认知
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But we shouldn't confuse the physical things which can be just, the people who can be virtuous to one degree or another, with perfect virtue or perfect justice.
但是我们不应该把可能正义的现实事物,比如,多少有些,德行的人,同完美的德性或完美的正义相混淆
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Just because it looks as though we can imagine it and just because it seems as though from the fact that we can imagine one without the other, it just won't necessarily follow that we really do have two things that are separate and not identical in the real world.
仅仅是因为我们似乎能够,想象到一个事物独立于,另一个事物存在这件事,并不能说明,在现实世界里,有这样两个,相互独立,而且不相同的事物
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If we give him number two, it's going to follow that whatever's doing the grasping-- call that the soul since the soul is just Plato's word for our mind-- if whatever's doing the grasping of the eternal and non-physical forms must itself be eternal and non-physical, it follows that the soul must be non-physical.
假如我们承认前提二,那么接下来就是不管是什么事物在认知,姑且称之为灵魂好了,因为灵魂是柏拉图对我们心灵的称呼,假如能够认知永恒,和非现实型相的事物本身必须是,永恒和非现实的,那么灵魂必须是非现实的
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