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So the very next arguement that Plato turns to can be viewed I think, as responding to this unstated objection.
所以柏拉图紧接着转向的论点,我认为可以被视作,对这个没有陈述的反对观点的回应。
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We have in Plato's own words here, the way he viewed politics and his reasons for his political philosophy.
我看到了柏拉图自述，他对政治的观点,以及他对自己政治哲学的理解。
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Now, it's not my purpose here to try to argue for or against Platonism with regard to abstract entities.
我的目的不是,试图去辩护或者反对,柏拉图哲学中的抽象实体这个概念
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I mean, the Greeks didn't -- Plato's Symposium, all of these guys are sitting around having a drinking party.
我是说,希腊人不这样 --,在柏拉图的飨宴上,人们坐在那里举行酒宴
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The ironic fact is, because the New Testament is considered more important by people, there are a whole lot more people who take my New Testament classes than go over to the Classics Department and take a course in Plato.
讽刺的是，由于人们认为新约更重要，所以在我新约课堂上的人,远远多于,在古典学系选修柏拉图的人。
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I'm including here people like Aristotle and Plato, Hume, Locke, Freud and Skinner.
我所说的这些学者包括了,亚里士多德,柏拉图,休莫,洛克,弗洛依德以及斯金纳
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That is a course that I like to teach, too; usually I teach Plato to T.S. Eliot or Plato to I.A. Richards or some other important figure in the early twentieth century.
这也是我喜欢教的一门课;,我通常教从柏拉图到T。S。艾略特,或从柏拉图到T。A。理查兹,或者其他20世纪初的重要人物。
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As a teacher of mine used to say "You read Plato your way " I'll read him his way."
如同我一位老师常说的,“你们以你们的方式阅读柏拉图,我会以他的方式来阅读他“
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I'm going to actually pause, periodically look at my notes and make sure I'm remembering how I think Plato understands the arguments.
我会时不时停下来,看看我的笔记,以确保,我记得我自己对柏拉图论证的理解
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Hobbes wrote, "I am at the point of believing that my labors will be " as useless as the commonwealth of Plato."
贺伯斯写到，“我在此要相信,我的努力将如同,柏拉图的国家一样不具实用“
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Those of you who would like to know more about it, I recommend reading more Platonic dialogues or taking a class in ancient philosophy.
如果你们当中有谁想做更多的了解,我推荐去读柏拉图对话集,或者选修古代哲学课程
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But for now, what I want to do is talk about Plato's democracy and ours.
接下来，我想要谈的是,柏拉图与我们的民主。
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I don't know how many of you have not read any Plato before, but for those of you who haven't, I actually think you're in for a treat.
我不知道你们当中有多少人,之前未曾读过柏拉图的作品,但是,还未拜读过柏拉图的同学们,我敢肯定你们会喜欢上他的
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Because, after all, this isn't Plato saying, "Here's what I believe explicitly."
因为,毕竟柏拉图也没有说,这就是我明确相信的观点
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What I'm going to do is basically run through my attempt to reconstruct-- my attempt to lay out the basic ideas from this series of four or five arguments that Plato gives us.
我要做的是,基本上是重新,把柏拉图给我们的这4,5个论点中,一些基本的观点拿出来讨论一遍
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So the point I'm suggesting is that many of Socrates' students and associates including Plato himself had some connection with this oligarchical government that had ruled Athens for a brief time.
所以，我想讲的是,许多苏格拉底的学生或是同僚,包括柏拉图本身，都与这个,曾短暂统治雅典的,寡头政府有关连。
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At the very end of the class I suggested that look, even if we were to grant to Plato that in order to think about justice, circularity, what have you, we had somehow grasp the forms.
下课之前我曾提到,即使我们同意柏拉图的观点,要思考,合理圆满诸如此类的概念，我们必须要先抓住这些形式。
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And, in a sense, one could say maybe this is not Plato's last word, I mean why does Socrates choose to stay and drink the hemlock?
或者也可以说，这并非柏拉图的结论，我是说为何苏格拉底,选择停留并服下毒参？
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Now, bracket the fact that, as I just explained, I don't myself find the argument from recollection persuasive. I don't think we got any good reason to believe based on the sort of things Plato draws our attention to.
我刚刚解释了，我并不觉得源于记忆的论证,有说服力,在柏拉图让我们注意的,这些观点的基础上。
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Now, the objection I've just raised is not the objection that Plato raised in the Phaedo, but he does raise a different objection.
我提出的反对观点并非是,柏拉图在斐多篇里提出的反对观点，但他确实提出了个不同的反对观点。
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The exception is Plato, where I'll lecture, maybe two lectures, trying to reconstruct Plato's central arguments, at least the arguments relevant to our class.
例外是柏拉图，我将授课的，也许要两节课，我会重新构建柏拉图中心理论，至少这部分理论是和我们的课相关的。
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In order for a more or less round plate to remind me of roundness, Plato says, I have to have already met perfect roundness itself.
如果一个或多或少,有点圆的盘子能让我想到正圆,柏拉图认为,我必须已经见过完美的圆本身了
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In fact, we have, and I want to read to you in just a moment a lengthy transcript of Plato's own account of why he came to write the Republic.
实际上，我们握有，我马上就会与你们分享,柏拉图冗长的亲笔解说,为何他要撰写《理想国》
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Now the answer seems to me, the only answer I can imagine Socrates and Plato are giving at this point is to say, look, I need a different 3 definition of invisible, not 2 but 3.
我认为答案是，我所能想到的唯一答案是,在这点上苏格拉底和柏拉图,给出的答案是，我需要一个,无形的不同定义，不是2而是。
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Well, there are the various parts of our physical body, but there's also our soul. Remember, as I said, in introducing the Phaedo, Plato doesn't so much argue for the existence of something separate, the soul, as presuppose it.
肉体由许多不同的部件组成,但是同样也有灵魂,我在介绍斐多篇的时候,提到柏拉图并没有花大力气,去辩证肉体之外存在个什么东西,他直接默认了灵魂的存在
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