and in fact in art and in religion, if I don't recognize my pain and confusion and suffering, it is not, in my words, self-vific.

事实上，在艺术和宗教中，如果我不面对我的痛苦，疑惑和苦难，那么艺术就不是，用我的话讲，有现实意义的。

普林斯顿公开课 - 人性课程节选

But I would say - I would agree with you - but I would add that for me, good religion and good art - I like this idea -- are as real as life itself.

我同意你的观点，但我还想加一点,对我来说，好的宗教和好的艺术,应该和生活一样真实，我喜欢这个理念。

普林斯顿公开课 - 人性课程节选

But which I think despite the fact that there may be points of contact between the spiritual aspects of making art and clearly religion, I think it's a rather unnecessary demand to make of a piece of art.

不过我认为，虽然,艺术创作的精神层面和宗教,很明显有一些共同之处，但并没有必要,对艺术作和宗教一样的要求。

普林斯顿公开课 - 人性课程节选