It is a miserable existence which can sapenergy and self-confidence, it can lead to exclusion from mainstream society and ordinary pursuits, to alienation and to marginalisation.
But there is a danger that, as well as diminishing Britain's influence in the European Union, Mr Cameron's plans (whatever they are) would sap a new Tory government's energy and attention.
The final panelist was SAP vice president Scott Bolick who cited examples of a few companies using SAP sustainability tools that have saved tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars in energy usage.