We would make the secure training appropriate to the young person and then having done that - which is a fairly sizeable stick - you send out the message to that person's peer group that you don't come back laughing from the courts but you can get taken away.

BBC: Crime: Politicians quizzed

The issue is not whether some individuals are held accountable where appropriate but rather whether this done in a spirit of blame and fear as in traditional management, or whether it is about creating a setting where small teams can contribute with all their talents and creativity.

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