And I think if things went well for us, that we could get over the hurt feelings, and have another good thing going in that part of the world that would have a salutary effect on that problem.

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"That's another thing that makes munis look good right now, " Ms. Benz says.

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Another reason is the flip side of a good thing.

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One thing is about as good as another, and nothing is quite good enough.

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But it is one thing to proclaim good intentions, quite another to carry them out.

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Another thing Apple talks about is you can achieve really good design and true simplicity if you stay in the problem long enough.

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While one might make a good sounding case for a different tax system, it is quite another thing to come up with a scheme that will actually gain political momentum and can be affected.

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"Making it was one thing and not making fools of ourselves when we got there was another but I think we gave a good show of ourselves, " said Van Hattum, recalling the matches he played in against Scotland, the Soviet Union and Brazil almost three decades ago.

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