Over a longer time frame, from the start of the bubble to the present, only a handful of the big firms have delivered capital gains for their investors.

ECONOMIST: The world's best banks

If they can persuade the German Chancellor that it makes sense, even from the standpoint of the public finances, to balance budgets over a longer time frame, they might actually be able to reach a deal.

BBC: Europe: The big debate

And both think the cuts should be strung out over a longer time frame to give the economy a break, particularly at a time when the Bank of England has seemingly run up against the limits of its ability to lessen the pain.

BBC: Budget 2013: Should the government plough ahead with cuts?